Veliladon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,565
If no credit feels weird to you, my name is Amber Hughson and my IG is @conflicttransformation

About the Abolition these images represent:
Ruth Wilson Gilmore explains "Abolition is about abolishing the conditions under which prisons became the solutions to problems, rather than abolishing the buildings we call prisons;" abolition is the work of building anti-oppressive culture and ways of addressing harm that center care. Abolition as a political practice is grounded in Black liberation; liberation from slavery, Jim Crow, policing, and incarceration. The term abolition as a confrontation with policing and prisons was popularized most notably by former Black Panther Party member and scholar-activist Angela Davis. Later, the work of modern abolition was shaped by the organization Critical Resistance. There are hundreds of organizations shaping this work today, including Survived and Punished, Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee, Black & Pink, The Red Nation, Southerners on New Ground, BYP100, and of course, Black Lives Matter. In Minneapolis where rebellions continue, central abolitionist organizations are Reclaim the Block and Black Visions Collective.


DXV3tDY.png

BFjZG1I.png

RyOLEcN.png

T6B29MC.png

DoYbBZv.png

zBxEZrf.png

2OVjpEW.png

N3NzKc5.png

AzsgM7z.png

OGJ6wnm.png
 

Deffers

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,402
I wonder if they'll be easier or harder for people to accept if they realize this unemployment thing isn't going away anytime soon because companies downsized, and having people working towards their communities is probably preferable to having them languish in means-tested precarity as one of the deserving poor.
 

RulkezX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,342
They mostly read like they were written by idealistic 15 year olds with no real world experience.

Poster 1 - When the crisis intervention team attends and are assaulted by the drunk / coked up youths and 1 hour later are sitting in A&E or alternatively they take both parties home and one goes on to choke on their own vomit / OD / Assault their partner or whatever and the crisis team member is now responsible.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
This is all well and good but that ridiculous poster near the bottom seems to be suggesting that if there is a mass shooting we are relying on "good guys with a gun"
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
"A series on what police abolition might look like"
People seem to be skipping over the word might.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
pigs: but what if shootybang instead
cops are raised on hate for the poor and minorities, that sounds like a nightmare to them, they enroll to kill people first and foremost
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,888
Police system is 60 years behind, the fact that we can hardly imagine these things is telling.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
3,002
At times like these it's probably good to remember that there are a whole lot of other western countries that are a whole lot more progressive than the US and none of them have ever suggested abolishing their police force. There's probably a good reason for that.

Do you also think forum moderation could be abolished if only part of the community received training in conflict deescalation techniques?
 

RulkezX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,342
Police system is 60 years behind, the fact that we can hardly imagine these things is telling.

Or its just dismisses how actual human being act as a species and pretends all anyone ever really needs in a wee hug and a chat ?

Written by people who live their life on the internet no doubt.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,318
I think my neighbors already think they are self-defense experts. To me, police can be all these things if they wanted to but it seems most individuals and organizations just take the easy route of beating people up and taking them to jail as a catch-all. Police should be training to de-escalate and use a variety of responses depending on the situation.

Like in a couple of these scenarios you just have city employees on patrol looking for brake lights and people sleeping on park benches? Sounds like the police anyway. The difference would be that you want people who's goal is to not bring you to jail or punish you but to help which I think is what community policing is supposed to be.

Does not everyone have neighbours trained in self-defence and de-escalation willing to put their lives and safety on the line for no money?

I thought it was common all over the world? /s

I definitely want my armed hick neighbors trained in self-defense, sounds AWESOME.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
This one suggestion out of many doesn't work so let's better arm our police officers with rocket launchers just to be on the safe side.
 

Plasma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,662
A lot of that seems to be just replacing police with "crisis intervention team".
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
Hear me out. What if we made a system where we gave a bunch of racist idiots guns and told them to go around policing? Oh wait, that's already what we do!

These scenarios aren't any more absurd than our current reality.
 

Deleted member 37151

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jan 1, 2018
2,038
—I am deleting my posts in this thread becuase on reflection they're not useful or good —
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,701
Does not everyone have neighbours trained in self-defence and de-escalation willing to put their lives and safety on the line for no money?

I thought it was common all over the world? /s
I believe the implication is that there would be programs in place to make sure people are connected with their neighbours and several people in every neighbourhood have appropriate self defence skills for such situations.

It wouldn't just be a case of hoping someone around you knows how to handle shit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,973
"A series on what police abolition might look like"
People seem to be skipping over the word might.
Yeah, but in cases like this I look more towards how the solution handles the worst case, not the average cases. Given that, if the idea of handling potentially dangerous situations involves "neighbors trained in self defense" aka "good guys with guns" and neighborhood watches, both of which have resulted in a lot of the problems people are protesting for today, that makes me skeptical of the idea overall
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,874
A few of these aren't realistic at all even with police being abolished
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,110
This one is so unrealistic it kind of makes the whole thing fall apart.

It honestly borders on satire. Why not just have competent police officers that are actually trained to serve the public in a respectful and humane way, avoiding violence until it's the only viable option left. That sounds good enough for me.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,948
No thanks to some of these. Calling your neighbors trained in self-defense? LOL. But I think mental health professionals and a better understanding of mental illness in general are sorely needed.
 

Deffers

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,402
the one about neighbors in self defense training is so bad it ruins the rest IMO

It's a bit of a problem. Community self-defense squads are a little bit more involved than "Call up your neighbors and have them use generic techniques to fix the situation" in the places and times where it's been successfully implemented.

In places like Catalonia back in the 30's, the way this worked when they got rid of their own police is that the labor unions would volunteer people from their group to patrol and be on call. But that was based on an anarcho-syndicalist platform where unions represented the fundamental basis of societal organization-- the wartime situation also muddled things, naturally. You'd have to find an alternative rotation within your community if you weren't running something similar. It's not impossible, but it authentically requires, well... actually imagining what comes next. But it's a very concrete sort of imagining, IMO.

A lot of that seems to be just replacing police with "crisis intervention team".

Because a lot of confrontations don't need armed fighters geared up with more weapons than soft skills to resolve the issue.

A pro-abolition critique that I have of this poster series is that, IMO, one of the big things that people need to imagine is a separation between criminal investigation and crime response. Because everyone understands that crimes are going to happen and investigations are therefore necessary. That's been the case since before police have been a thing. Getting people to think along those lines is one of the critical hurdles that leaves people wondering at the phrase "crisis intervention team."
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,907
Richmond, VA
Hear me out. What if we made a system where we gave a bunch of racist idiots guns and told them to go around policing? Oh wait, that's already what we do!

These scenarios aren't any more absurd than our current reality.

You think your neighbors aren't racist? You think the people hired on these 400 different crisis intervention teams wont have some racists? You think the tail light replacement guy can't be racist?
 

Deleted member 37151

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jan 1, 2018
2,038
—I am deleting my posts in this thread becuase on reflection they're not useful or good —
 
Last edited:

Transistor

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,360
Washington, D.C.

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
You think your neighbors aren't racist? You think the people hired on these 400 different crisis intervention teams wont have some racists? You think the tail light replacement guy can't be racist?
The chances of my neighbor being racist are far lower than some random cop being racist. I'm just pointing out that it's no more absurd than the current situation.
 

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,701
You think your neighbors aren't racist? You think the people hired on these 400 different crisis intervention teams wont have some racists? You think the tail light replacement guy can't be racist?
Systemic racism means cops have an incentive to be racist, attract racists, and enforce laws that disproportionately affect minorities.

Sure anyone can be racist. But in these scenarios the incentive is minimised or even not there.
 

Deleted member 37151

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jan 1, 2018
2,038
—I am deleting my posts in this thread becuase on reflection they're not useful or good —
 
Last edited:

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
This is the kind of utopic thinking that leads to dystopias. I really don't want people calling their neighbors to deal with people they don't like, thank you very much. What everyone needs is good cops.
 

Doc Holliday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,837
Bunch of semantics that boils down to:

IMAGINE Police...but who do their jobs.


Yea pretty much. Until human nature changes, we need police. But we need to completely rethink how police are trained, equipped, who is picked, and the role police unions.

What sucks is that US obsession with guns doesn't help. Civilians armed to the teeth so the police think they need military grade weapons as well. You have wannabe soldiers wanting permission to use their fancy deadly toys. It's a mess, but it can be fixed if leaders stop being afraid of the police.
 

bulbasort

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
383
You think your neighbors aren't racist? You think the people hired on these 400 different crisis intervention teams wont have some racists? You think the tail light replacement guy can't be racist?
But if the crisis team or the tail light replacement guy doesn't have a gun or the power to arrest you, the risk of racists is greatly reduced.
 

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,701
Finland
How about keeping police but having actual standards for who can get in the force instead of any racist asshole, and proper training for them to handle these kinds of situations without resorting to drawing their gun?
 

Deffers

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,402
But if the crisis team or the tail light replacement guy doesn't have a gun or the power to arrest you, the risk of racists is greatly reduced.

Basically. People don't get that part of police abolition is balkanizing the fuck out of all the services police render, so that there's not a Universal Violence Machine on call regardless of the problem you're facing.

The armed guy with a truncheon shouldn't be showing up to your mental health emergency. He shouldn't be the one in charge of monitoring your tail lights. Frankly, he shouldn't be the one involved with criminal investigation beyond providing immediate security at a crime scene.